Pushing Back on Shame

I’m super excited to share this episode with you, because you’re about to hear from Miki Agrawal. If you’ve been paying attention to the social impact business scene in the US, you’d know that Miki is a social entrepreneur known for breaking taboos and disrupting the status quo for over a decade.

She was named one of Fast Company’s “Most Creative People”, “Young Global Leader” by World Economic Forum, “Social Entrepreneur of the Year” by the World Technology Summit, and was one of INC Magazine’s “Most Impressive Women Entrepreneurs.”

She is the founder of several acclaimed social enterprises - notably THINX (period-proof underwear), TUSHY (modern bidet brand) and Wild (NYC’s first gluten-free pizza concept).

TUSHY is her most recent project. It’s a company that is revolutionizing the North American toilet category with a modern, affordable, designer bidet attachment that both upgrades human health & hygiene as well as reducing wasteful toilet paper consumption. She and her team are also helping fight the global sanitation crisis by bringing clean latrines to underserved communities in India through their partnership with Samagra as well as funding resoiling and reforestry projects all throughout South America.

Miki has written two books, “Do Cool Shit” and “Disrupt-Her" both of which made the #1 Amazon best seller list.

In this episode, Miki shares lessons she’s learned while Pushing Back on Shame.

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Show Notes

 

Transcript 

Jalen 

Miki, I've really been looking forward to our conversation. I'm sure there's lots of different topics that you can share with us, but in particular, I'm really interested in the story you have around pushing up against boundaries, particularly around, you know, shifting culture. Do you have a story that's going to bring us into that into a moment... that's really alive for you around that topic? 

Miki 

Sure. Yeah, I can share a story from my last company THINX, or my current company Tushy. They're both kind of related because I use similar playbook for both to really kind of tell these stories. So the first I'll tell... the story which and I started this, you know, I co-founded this period proof underwear company that, you know, really shifted the conversation around a women's period and, you know, create a pair of underwear that you just put on and bleed into and not worry about your period. It was. Sort of a really. Weird concept in in the beginning. That became truly revolutionary and I think there was a lot of. Kind of push back around saying the word. Period out loud. You know, being able. To really talk about. This subject, the thing that creates human life, every woman has a period, and yet it was considered very taboo, very shameful to talk about, and it didn't make any sense and. The big kind of, you know, as we're building a company and the company is getting bigger and bigger. We finally had enough, you know, money to be able to. Put on our to create. Our first subway campaign in New York City, which was a huge, huge milestone moment for us for, you know, start up where you know you usually you see huge brands in the subway stops and you know it's like almost like, you know unattainable to get in there and have your... have all of your signage and all of your just sort of like your brand. 

Jalen 

Your voice heard, yeah. 

Miki 

When you're subway, yeah. The way. And so we read the guidelines for the New York City Public Transit system really thoroughly. My team did, and we created a set of. Ads that was perfect. For the subway system, and they got rejected by the subway, by the MTA, which is the New York City subway system. And they said you can't say the word period in the subway. And it was such a a huge moment for us to realize that, wow, in the most progressive city in the World, New York City. You can't say the word period because they said what if a nine year old boy sees these ads and we were like, that would be incredible for them to have a dialogue with their parents about what is a period, how does it work? I'm here. Oh, wow. That blood kept me alive in the womb. Like I had. No. Idea. You know how it works and I have a lot more reverence for women's period now that. I know about it, I've. Heard the word out loud and when you see something out loud, it just destigmatize it, right? And so it. Became really, really clear that there was. A huge huge. You know, societal block around a women's period. And so we said to the new. York City Public Transit system, OK, if you. Don't put our ads in the subway. We're going to go, we're going. To go to. Press and say the New York City Public Transit system does not let us say the word period in the some. Ways. It's it's wild. And they said they. Kind of called our bluff. They like, go for it, go talk to press. And so we were like ohh God, we don't know any press, but we then we then. I found through friends, you know, a Forbes writer and then another writer for another big publication. And it ended up getting published and then the story ended up getting going viral internationally. How the the word period cannot be uttered in the most progressive city in the world. And that was such a pivotal moment where got a lot of shade, a lot of shamy stuff. And then. A lot of empowerment. A lot of. Women saying yes, this is so important. For us to destigmatize. Is the. Most natural thing for a woman. And it was a it was a. It was the most pivotal moment. For our company, I think that then took us on a whole new trajectory and then cut to my current company ***** similar thing we, you know, built the company to a point where we're able to be new. York City subway system again and. The MTA then said that tushi, our bidet company. It's a bidet that literally attaches to existing toys. But in 10 minutes, there's no plumbing or electrical required. It takes 10 minutes to install. It doesn't. It's just a big day that washes your **** clean after you poop, and it's basically like an under $100 product. It's a $99 product and it's the most game changing thing, you. Can do for your. **** is to clean it like you. Clean everything else in your life. And wash instead of wipe. And so we were. We were excited to finally share that message to the new. To new. York, through this public transit system and they said. They said bidet is like this is a sex product and we said no, it's like toilet paper. It's literally but, but it's like better because it cleans you. It's a cleaning product, really like. And they banned us again from the subways because they said till she's a sex product. And so it was just this crazy. Things we said again “OK, if you don't let us put these ads in subways, we're going to go to press.” And they're like, go to press and we're like, OK. And so we basically went to media and. Then the Daily News covered this thing called “The MTA flushes down this bidet.” This company Tushy’s ads in the town, the toilet and what we didn't know, which is sometimes like, you know, like you can't predict virality, right? Is virality is completely unpredictable and. We didn't realize that Saturday Night Live, you know, Saturday Night Live, right? SNL, which is like the, of course, everyone knows it. So SNL basically scours the daily, the New York Daily Papers, New York Times, York Magazine and all the New York Daily News. And they, you know, to to find funny content. And they found our our story of how our. She was was not allowed to be in the subways because of the MTA ban and saying that we were a sex product. So Michael Che, the head writer of Saturday Night Live, writes a 3 minute rant. And goes on SNL weekend update and literally talks about why ***** should be in the subways and why bidets are the best thing that's ever like. It's like the cleanest thing to do for your bottom, and it's it. It was like a 3 minute infomercial on Saturday Night Live that I I couldn't have spent millions of dollars. To make we were start up like there's there was just no chance that would have ever happened if we didn't push back against this society. So there's this like. You know this, this whole thing of like ohh people could get, you know, we got banned. They said no, you slink away or you can turn lemons into lemonade. And so I think we've learned over time that when society says one thing, you can kind of turn that into lemonade and say, hey, this is doesn't make any sense. And then just see what happens. With both things and *****, this similar story had astronomical game changing effects on our. Is this so? You know, I think it's so important to push back against society because it turns out that lots of people agree with the fact that this is the way society is, is not right. But it's really difficult for people to step up and stand up. But as soon. As somebody does stand. Up there's a rallying around it. Which I found was really really powerful for both companies. Toshi, currently we save over 15,000,000 trees every year from getting flushed out on the toilet. You think about the Canadian boreal forests. It's one of the greatest carbon sinks in the world. It's getting cut down right now, decimated to make toilet paper which doesn't properly clean. You, you know, and so we're just like the analogy I love giving is imagine if a bird pooped on your arm. And and like, you know, you take a piece of dry paper and smear it off. And like, I'm clean, like, lick my arm like that would. Just never happen, right? So it's total indoctrination and societal indoctrination that we're fighting against and waking people up from and saying. Hey, there's a better way through, you know, through through better products through better ideas through talking about it through eliminating shame. And oftentimes that comes with sticks and stones, and people try to discredit you, make you wrong to say **** about you, have experienced that many different ways, many different times, being called the controversial founder because we're trying to change culture and push society forward. And and talking. About periods and pee and poop. You know, in a way that's empowering. And yeah, I've dealt with a lot of pushback from society as a result of that. 

Jalen 

Well, I'm. That's two things that come to mind is 1 is like what allows you... like, what kind of Jedi tricks do you need to use? Because you can push back against these things and just get pushed down... get mowed over, but you and your team or teams have found ways to like Aikido the whole thing... blend and ground it and I'm wondering if you have any thoughts on like what that what the strategy was that that was effective. I mean, aside from the obvious and what you just... 

Miki 

Yeah, I mean, I. Think it's? It's just the creative, the mentality of creativity, right, like. OK, one door closes. Another one opens like that's the the. The first no is. Just a a pathway to to getting the yes, right, so it's like. How do you? Get a know and then go back and find. A way to. Maybe try again and get to know again. OK, try again. Again, OK. Like we're going to go the third door route, which is we're going to go to press and have press right about it. And then basically like make them feel bad. And then so for things eventually, not only do they go viral, but then our ads ended up in the New York City subways. Same thing with. *****. You know, our ads went viral. But also we we could have put them in the subways at the at at the end of the day, we ended up not doing it. Oh, no, we did. We ended up doing doing one run in the subway. Not not the full campaign, but. And then doing it so not only did we get all the press for not getting the subways, but eventually they got enough tweets and like kind of angry messages from. You know people that they eventually caved and said, OK, fine, we'll let. We'll let you, your your ads. Be showed on. The subway and so. I think it's just. It's it's just, it's it's relentlessness, right? I think there's this like. You know, I think a lot of times, like people will have a kind of a a weak like can have weaker kind of backbones. But if you if you've played sports, you've fallen down enough times you get back up and get your head back in the game or you've done enough things where you've fallen down enough times and you've gotten. Up enough. Times like you just kind. Of learn the resilience and learn the relentlessness. Of just like. Keep going and trying again different ways. Is and and eventually you know, with your sincerity and authenticity, society will be like, huh, let me look into that and creativity. You know, I've kind of created a three pronged thesis around. How to shift culture? The first is having a best in class product that actually solves a real problem. Our period or solve the problem our my big day Toshiba Day is like the most game changing thing you can do for your bathroom in in like 10 minutes. It's a totally different. For you from a clean, from confidence, from feeling like truly beautiful and and just not having to deal with chronic ailments anymore, people have chronic UTI hemorrhoids. All these things can just go away by having a big day. So the first thing is having a best in class product the 2nd. Prong to changing culture is. Consider artful design across every touch point of your brand. So if you think about both things and Toshi, if you really go to hellotushy.com right now and. You go to. My website you're like, wow, this is a beautifully designed website and I, you know, we just launched it actually month, you know, month ago. And we really really think about our brand. Through the lens of artfulness. Is it artful? Because what happens when you look at art is you want to lean in and you're like, wow, that's beautiful. Oh my God, they're. But but the first thing you said was that's beautiful. And so because of that, it just opened you up to having the conversation a little bit better because your first reaction was a +1. So that's the second best in class product. Artful considered design across every touch point of your brand. You look at our toy packaging, look at our website, look at our. Adds everything. Look at our emails. Everything is beautiful. Our our videos. It's like artful. And then the third prong is accessible, relatable language, and so. When you think about like. When you think about like telling your friends something new about like what you're working on, or something you learned, you tell your friend like or you text your friend and like some very colloquial, very simple way that your friend will get right away. It's kind of funny deprecating whatever versus like, let me text my friend exactly. A polished thing of how I want them to. Receive the message that I'm. Trying to give them in. The same way, the way we write our copy, our content, it's like we're texting our best friend. How would you want to receive the message? About what we're trying to do in a way that feels relatable. It's like, oh, you're talking to me like, I feel like you're not trying to sell me something. You're not trying to like, you're not. It's not academic. Clinical, medical, technical. It's just very like colloquial. You're meeting me where I am. And I think oftentimes companies are starting new product or new new things that are shifting. Culture or trying to do something. That's totally different. They're way too heady or way too clinical or academic or technical or medical about it. It just pushes over people's heads versus like really, really writing like you're texting your best friend. And so I think all three together having a best in class product, having considered artful design, which makes you lean in and the same thing with accessible, relatable language people like, ohh, you're talking to me like me. Oh, you're talking about periods and poop. But I get leaned in again. Because you're talking to me. And so now you've now doubly leaned in with the artfulness and the and the right language, and then a great product and all of a sudden, I'm like, I'm going to try this and all of a sudden, it's changed your life. And you're like, wow. Like, let me shout about it from the rooftops and tell all of my friends. And so that's how we really built. The companies. 

Jalen 

And I am in meeting some of some of the background on on your projects. Also recall that you're speaking about like iteration like Perfections, reiteration or something along that line. 

Miki 

Iteration is perfection. Yeah, it's like, yeah. 

Jalen 

OK. There we go. So I mean that and that sounds that that's a variation on relentless I would think. 

Speaker 

Right. 

Miki 

Well, no, I mean it it it. Ish as in like, there's never a point where you're finished, right? So there. Yeah, there is a that there is like the the relentlessness of keeping going. But the that that concept of iteration is perfection or like, why I I really take that to heart is my one of my favorite sayings. Ever is because. It is the iterative. Process. That's perfect. It's constantly making improvements in your life, in yourself, in your business and your products like artificially biday product has has been better and better and better and better. We we have the best bidet in the world because we don't stop making it better and better, listening to our customers. What are. Some pain points. What do you need? Oh, there's little dirt that gets stuck in the crevices. We now create a Schmidt shield. Ohh, you need to better angles. We now create an angle thing. Adjuster. Ohh like this. Spray comes out a little bit too hard. Is your your water system and your homes are very dependent on your pressure and so we created pressure controls. When you turn it, it's the right perfect, soft, gentle and also like cleaned you properly. Ohh like you want to make you have two people in your household. Got it like we you and you want to make sure that it's clean. You know cleaned every time. So now. Every time you turn the blade. On it, double cleans itself twice before every. Use and so it's like we've thought. About every single thing. To make the the experience better and better and better and better for our customers and for our people because. We're listening so. It's the iterative. Process like ohh OK, the first product. There you go world here. It is you. Know and I think like that's that's stagnation is death so it's iteration is perfection. Stagnation is death. You know, being still is different than being stagnant. Being still is being quiet and really allowing sort of, you know, the meditative expansion to happen. But being stagnant is when you're kind of festering in the same old, same old. And oftentimes we think about the difference between a flowing river. I talk about this in my book disrupt her. The difference between a flowing river and a stagnant. Pond. You know the stagnant ponds or don't go swimming in a pond. But swimming in the river where there's flow. The stacking pond has a lot of toxicity and buildup because there's no movement, there's no flow, there's no, there's no constant going. And so the idea that stagnation just creates festering creates looping creates and and even in relationships or in business that just creates toxicity versus like we we're constantly moving like we're we're iterating, we're learning. Growing, we're learning. We're growing, we're constantly moving and that's a much healthier way to live. 

Jalen 

Absolutely. The the second piece that I'm really curious about is the muscle that you've developed for pushing back and you know and I haven't finished reading disruptor, but I've gotten a chunk of the way through. And I got the sense that your disrupting muscle, your push back muscle started early on. And so I'm wondering about your sense of what has supported you in building that muscle to push back and do what you feel is right. 

Miki 

Yeah, I mean, you know, I think I'm half Japanese, half Indian. I grew up in French, Canada and Montreal in, in, in a Greater America. And I think like you know, as I thought about this and. You know, really pondering. You know, just like the mentality of it, I think it really comes from being able to be at the dinner table every night and being able to debate with a Japanese mother and Indian father in French, Canada in a way, that's like there's no, this is the way it is. Like the way society is, because there's the way the Indians do it. There's a way, the Japanese. But there's the ways that the French. Canadians do it. There's a way the English Canadians do it. There's the way Americans do it, and I've been exposed to those cultures in deep, deep ways from early on so that we could always debate what's true, what feels good, like what, what makes sense. And we can challenge everything we grew up challenging. All the different conversation, the conversations that we had. And and I think that muscle was built pretty early on because you know it's like if you're born, if you're only Japanese and the Japanese, then you only see the world a certain way or same thing with, you know, like if you're. With one culture. Then you're you're. Pretty like set. But because you know, I was very lucky to be born in a very multicultural. Diverse environment. It allowed me to, you know, check my assumptions and and really look at perspectives that. You know it's. There's no one. Way you know, there's many ways like, but what feels the best to me. Like what's that? What feels the most right? For me in in, in any. One of these. Topics and so the book disruptor is really around looking at where each one of these sort of systems came from, whether it's your career or money or time. Or friendship, or relationships or marriage, or, you know, career. All the different areas in our life, like the concept of patriarchy, feminism, just like understanding. Where these concepts came from? Who says that these are the way it is and then really understanding the content historical context of where those way things are came from and then being able to find agency to disrupt them one by one. And I think for me like starting things in *****. And even my restaurants before that. Was a huge receipt of so much pushback. I started New York City's first gluten free pizza concept where, you know, in the city in New York City where it was like, Joe's Pizza was like the thing and people did not want like. We're like gluten free. Pizza like disgusting, right? So it was the same kind of. Thing where organic, local, seasonal like Farm to table. Those are, you know, my my restaurants, the first alternative pizza concept in New York that had gluten free flowers forming free cheeses, local seasonal toppings like talked about, local organic farm to table, all that stuff. While in 2005 what? You know. Subway was the. Healthy food, you. Know. And so there was still like such a huge chasm for like what was actually healthy and what what wasn't. And so when I really approached all of my businesses from the lens of hey, like, why is it done this way? Like, why are we doing it? Why do we care about or think about food in this way? Or why do we think about our periods in this way? And why do we go to the bathroom and kill trees and use? Dry paper and. Smear poop around. Instead of people matter all day long. Like why? Are we doing that, you know? And so the idea is like. Who says? Let's ask those questions and let's disrupt them. Let's find agency and autonomy and sovereignty within ourselves to decide if that makes sense for us or not. 

Jalen 

And even with all of this history of experience, that opens you to seeing things this way and making and having these questions. There's still a cost, it's. Still something to deal with? The pushback at times, right? And so I'm curious about what tools you've found to help you manage rollback. 

Miki 

Yeah, yeah, I've had. Some pretty intense setbacks where you know, you realize that people want to say stuff about you that are completely untrue to see you fall because society society wants to maintain its form and. You know, you see that there's so many takedowns that are happening, you know these days, and I've certainly, you know, had a taste of a deep experience of that and it was shocking to my system, you know, I was pregnant at the time and, you know, initially it was just sort of like, holy ****, is this real life? Like, how is this actually happening? And then I realize. I had this story, this one moment, that is you. Know that's has stayed with me for forever. Since this experience happened was. I was like laying in my bed, super pregnant with my baby when all of this stuff was coming out. You know, that was so like wildly untrue and and just completely taken out of context. And and I remember laying there and just crying in my pillow. Just being like, why am I what? How is this happening? Like what did I do to really deserve this and just asking that question like teach give me give me like tell me what you know like what I need to learn from this experience because. It's crazy and I then had this like deep out of body experience where I was like. I became like. A fly observing myself while I was also present crying in my pillow. So I actually experienced myself doubly in this weird way. And I remember like, as I was watching myself crying in my pillow. I just had this like Epiphany, where it was like, Oh my God. Like, I get to feel the depths of sadness, betrayal, anger, feeling misunderstood, shame. Like all those hard feelings. It's like, how is this happening to me? Like I I, you know, there's all the feelings that came up. That was like. Wow, like in this one short and precious life. Like I get to feel the depths of those feelings that we all try so hard to avoid. And I got to taste like the nectar of betrayal and sadness and anger and pain. And like all those feelings. And and I felt like in that moment, my emotional capacity expanded like it was this, like, expansive moment for me when. Now, like cut to seven years later, I've had, like, dozens of friends reach out to me when they're as they're going through their own experiences, similar to mine, not different. Different, you know, scales of things. But I can meet them where they are. I can feel their pain. I can meet them in their sadness. I can meet them in their anger and before. I couldn't. I'm like just move on. You're fine. Got and I didn't really have the emotional wherewithal to feel the way I feel now. And I'm so deeply grateful for that. And, you know, I've also over the course of, you know, four years after that traumatizing experience that I had. I went through trauma therapy, and I would stop that. My Indian side would be like, I'm too good for that. Like this is like for people who are broken or whatever, and it's like, no, that stuff heals and it works. And it really like I really went through all the different somatic therapy healings like so really like feeling into my body like. Where the pain? Lives and how to really let it go and. And and and of course you know, like with time I really tried all the modalities, which was amazing. And now I feel like I have so many tools in my toolkit to pull out as challenging things happen. So like actually cut to, you know, going through the transition of my 11:00. Year marriage that. Happened this past, you know, year. It was such a. Beautiful opportunity to pull out those tools and he and I are, you know, best of friends. We're raising our credible son together. We live 8 minutes from each other. We're we spent a month together in Costa Rica with this new girlfriend like it feels. So healthy and clean. And I think one of the reasons why is. Because I learned how to speak my truth, he learned how to speak his truth. Like this is not what this feels. I love you like we've had an incredible run. Like an incredible chapter together. And it had a beginning, a middle and an end. We have a gorgeous son together. There's nothing like like, terrible. And we had a great marriage. This is not a failure. It's just time for the next chapter. And it's OK. And there was a there, you know, instead of. It being this like. Thing you know, there are moments of, of course, like challenge. But Overarchingly, I think we really, really. Showed ourselves that having tools to pull on to really sit down and work through, you know, the harder things in, in a loving way with a lot of understanding and compassion. Really supported the transition beautifully so. You know, I I. 

Speaker 

Owe a lot. 

Miki 

To like the hard experience, people avoid at all costs the hard experiences that those are the hard feelings or the hard. Sensations but like those are the feelings that. Really, actually make the the the the. Juiciest, tastiest, most magical high is even higher right like. The more your. Low expands the high expands too, and so there's this like beautiful. Expansion that happens across the board and so. You know, I'm not afraid to feel the hard things anymore. Like, again, going through my divorce was like a really, like, telling opportunity. Like, wow. Like, I wrote a whole album around a music album around it as well. So and it's actually now on Spotify so. Under Bill Gates. Yeah. Yeah, so. 

Speaker 

OK. 

Miki 

And it's called. It all exists, and the idea that love exists in. Many forms and it's all OK. 

Jalen 

My experience of stepping into the world where you're questioning a lot of things, questioning everything, it can be really expensive and there can be times where, like, well, there are some things that are are are worthy of keeping or our boundaries that are worthy of of leaving. And I'm wondering like do you have any particular guideposts that you use? To try to distinguish what what boundaries need to be left alone in a in a given moment or period. 

Miki 

Yeah, yeah. You know, I I. Talk a lot about like in my book disruptor about the concept of like feminism and patriarchy, and how that like plays a role in the in sort of the dynamic between males, females, masculine, feminine and how if we push too far. And like, fight the patriarchy. Too far where you know you watch. The movie Barbie and like the men are like. What am I doing here? You know, it's like not. It's not ideal. Like, you know, they have the futures female T-shirts, which is doing exactly that which we're fighting against, which is gender oppression. It's like, that feels so wrong to me. I have a son. And like, I love men and I love women I love. One and and so the idea that like. The future is female. It just doesn't make sense to me. And so so for me, like I'm Indian and Japanese. So there's a a big part of me that's also traditional and and the feminine masculine dynamic. Like, I love the idea of, like, chivalry. I love, you know, if a man pays for my dinner and I feel like a Princess or a queen, like I don't have. To be like I got my door. It's like you know, it's. Like ohh. You're opening my door like you know, I I really. I really like the. You know the man hunts. And the women like you know. Like flows and community. Like I really love. That that polarity between the masculine feminine. I don't want to mess with that. Like I find that to be beautiful. I think as long as there's mutual respect for one another, I think there's this, like, beautiful dynamic and polarity that feels really, really. Healthy for being the mammals that we are, right. And so there are certain things that, you know, like society like like, what's shameful. I want to, you know, push back against like appearing being shameful, talking about our bodies. You know, there should be nothing shameful about that when it comes to like maintaining. Morton, things that I I like like I'm I'm I'm quite a traditionalist when it comes to the masculine feminine dynamic I'll say. 

Jalen 

OK, that's great. And I'm wondering if does he have any closing piece of advice for other aspiring changemakers who are feeling challenge about the boundaries that they're pushing? 

Miki 

Yeah, I think you know the, the, the, the number one piece of advice I gave myself which you know which I will I I give to everyone listening is. As an entrepreneur is to cultivate your friend group to cultivate your community, cultivate your community, and I know that we're community. Feels very. Like use these days in a lot of different ways, but like from a lens of like really building your tribe, your friend group your and and showing up even when it's when you're tired and even when. You're building your. Thing and still show up for your friends because that that is what keeps keeps me, keeps me going. And keeps each other. Going and you know, for example, I just came back from. New York I caught a 4:00 AM flight. I was up till 1:00 AM at 3 hours of sleep and then, you know, like and and then, like, you know. I I still showed. Up to my friends, Bert surprise birthday party just for. 30 minutes so should be be there. And show up and I and and and support when I when they land in Austin even if. I was exhausted. I'm not saying this like push past exhaustion, but like make it easy for yourself. I put myself in an Uber. I made my way there. I like, spent 30 minutes really connecting, and then I put myself back in Uber. So I'm not like driving. So, like, doing things that are just like, how do I best show up with the resources that I have right now? That makes sense for me, but still shows up and like he was so grateful that I came and he was just like wow. Like, that really meant a lot to me. He barely slept last night and like, over and over again. Like we like my sister and I are known to show up hard for our friends. If you need something, we are there like we are the biggest champions for our people. And so when I went through my crazy **** that I went through. The not the amount of love that I received from that and you don't have to, like, give love hoping to get love like there is a a beautiful, just human reciprocity that happens in general, cause we're just human beings who love to give and receive and like. That, just like the flow of life. But I will say that. Like it was one of the. Most beautiful like it was the most. Painful experience of. My life and then the most beautiful experience of my life, because the amount of love and support and generosity of time that I received from my friends. Like I went a year. There, without being alone, like without having some food delivered to me, or I also just gave birth to my kid. And so people came and played music and like brought food and like, just regale me and song. And you know. Fun and like I had friends who like we had one time with like. I don't know. A group of like 15 friends who just showed up at my house at the same time with the boom box circled me and played this song. Help hand me and and that was the middle. And then I was crying in the middle. They were all like dancing around me. Just. Like cheering me thru. Boo. And it was like a moment that I will never forget. And I have that video of it actually, you know, still on my phone because it was like such a moment. I remember what the day before I had this, like, crazy like my first, like, deposition, which I was just like, this is so crazy that I'm going through this. But like, OK, I guess it's part of. The life experience, that's. Offering me let. Me go through. But I had 20 friends that night. Come to my house and brought crystals and different like ornaments and heart things and like take and so. I brought all. Of those with me to the deposition the next day and literally like pull them out of my bag and pulled all the crystals around me on the table so that I can have a shield of love around me. And it was just like the most beautiful. Strangely beautiful experience. Of my one of the most strange people experience of my life. The dichotomy of like the what the **** and the love was. So like was just another showing of like it all exists simultaneously. Like life exists simultaneously. This feeling this simultaneous is that feeling. This energy exists simultaneously is that energy. And it's all like part of the melange of being alive. So yeah, it was just. Yeah, super important. You know, final story to share about cultivating community and how important it is to. Show up for. Your friends, as much as you possibly can without Excel. Use because it'll it'll. It'll come back 10 times when you need it and not again. That's not why to do it, but it just creates so much. The love just takes you, takes you, moves you through hard. The hardest things in the world. 

Jalen 

Thank you so much. I really appreciated all that you shared today. Thanks for your time. 

Miki 

Thank you. 

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